Tag: baptism

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How Many Elcik’s Are a Lot?

 

Thu 10/22/2020 1:17 PM

Beth & Eugene,

I’m beginning to question if DNA will help break the wall between our European ancestors and us.

Beth, I told Eugene that there are a lot of us, Elcik’s. I may have been optimistic, however. At the time, I perceived there was a lot based on Google searches. But what number constitutes “a lot”?

I have found a website (forebears.io) that provides a fascinating picture of the distribution of the Family surname by country.  Keep in mind that there are at least 3 viable spellings of the Elcik surname to research.  And then there is Turkey, where Elcik may be pronounced differently.  It also had a specific meaning, i.e., it translates as “zipper.”

The following four links are of interest.

  • Slovakia (14), Czechia (1), Elčík Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History: Elcik
  • U.S. (240), Hungary (120), Austria (14), Elsik Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History: Elsik
  • Czechia (192), Slovakia (155), Ilčík Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History: Ilcik
  • Turkey (1,274), Elçik Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History: Elcik

I question whether DNA databanks will have many or any of our European ancestors in them with these numbers.  Add this to Eugene’s finding that the Nazi party destroyed most of Europe’s records, and our prospects are slim. He is right. The church kept records of birth, baptism, marriage, and death. Without their records, DNA, I thought, would be the ideal choice. Ouch!

A DNA test may not help us find European “cousins.” If, however, I can get one of the descendants of John Ilick to take the test with me, other information is possible. A secondary goal of my research has always been to see if we can connect the Ilcik and Elsik families.

  • John Elsik (1866-1941) is the preferred spelling of my Great-grandfather.
  • John Ilsik (1886-1962) is the preferred spelling of John Elcik’s (Rocky Point, NY) Great-grandfather.

A Y-111 test is the best DNA test to consider. It is designed specifically to confirm Y-chromosome matching between two living men. It is $250 each, i.e., more expensive than other DNA tests, so there may not be mutual interest in taking the test. I didn’t agree to it in 2009 when Judy (my friend and DNA expert) asked me to do it.  My mistake! I will reach out to Brian, John, Robert, and Stephen on Ancestry.com’s new messenger service to see who might be interested in he is interested.  But no social pressure. Lol.

Either way, I intend to take the $99 autosomal DNA test from Ancestry.com at the end of the year when it goes on sale for 40% off. Judy, my friend with Polish ancestors, is hoping it will establish a stronger family link between her and us. She no longer has access to male DNA for testing. Her initial DNA sample came from her deceased father’s hearing aids.  It suggested a link, but a more expensive test was recommended, and I wasn’t ready.  So, this is our best chance for her and me. This is the only DNA test that Ancestry.com supports for use with its Family Tree website.

I hope this will generate some interest. Here is to hope!

Regards,

John, IV

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Re: Elcik Genealogy

Mon, January 25, 2021, 1:56 PM
Charlie:

Slovakia was part of the dual monarchy of Austria-Hungary but was administered by Hungary. The Ilčík family was from Parchovany, Slovakia. In the latter part of the 19th century, the priests in Parchovany kept Hungarian sacramental records. In Hungarian, the surname came before the personal name. I found baptismal records for the following children of Ilycsik Pál (Pavol Ilčík in Slovak) and Pelcsarszki Mária (Mária Pelčarská in Slovak):

  • Ilycsik János (Ján Ilčík in Slovaki) baptized Mar. 10, 1885; as John P. Elcik died Sep. 5, 1962 at Lewiston
  • Ilycsik Mária (Mária Ilčík in Slovak) baptized May 18, 1889
  • Ilycsik Anna (Anna Ilčík in Slovak) baptized Sep. 22, 1891

(The Parchovany baptismal records are digitized up to 1895, but Pavol Ilčík was another one of their children, as confirmed by his obituary, which gives his date of birth as February 15, 1896. As Paul Elcik, he died Dec. 23, 1970, at Lewiston.

I found the following baptismal records in Parchovany for children of Ilscik János (Ján Ilčík in Slovak) and Erzsébet Bárán (Alžbeta Baran in Slovak):

  • Ilcsik György (Juraj Ilčík in Slovak) baptized Apr. 20, 1866
  • Ilcsik János (Ján Ilčík in Slovak) baptized Dec. 28, 1867; as John P. Elcik died May 24, 1941 at Lisbon Falls
  • Ilcsik Anna (Anna Ilčík in Slovak) baptized Jan. 31, 1870
  • Ilcskik József (Jozef Ilčík in Slovak) baptized Nov. 26, 1873; as Joseph P. Elcik died May 31, 1838

I hope this helps.

Deeb

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A Data Entry Question

Wed, January 27, 2021, 4:20 AM

Beth,

A discussion item for us is how to do the data entry of the new names.

I would like to have it so that a query of Elcik in the List of All People gets all the Elcik’s.

At the same time, We now have variations in the name for:

  • American name
  • Baptismal name
  • Slovak name

I propose the following to get the sort right and keep the historical data as well.

Not only will the Elcik’s all appear using this strategy, but the variations will appear sorted at the end.

You can see what I mean by doing a sort on the MyCousins Tree.

What do you think?

John, IV

Listing #First NameSurnameRelationship

1

Pal (Pavol, Paul) Elcik (IIycsik, Ilcik) NY John Elcik’s Great-Great-Grandfather

2

Maria Pelcsarszki (Pelcarska)#1’s spouse (Not our Pelcarsky, but probably related)

3

John (Janos, Jan) Elcik (Ilscik, Ilcik) NY John Elcik’s Great-Grandfather

4

Maria Elcik (Ilycsik, Ilcik) Sibling of #3

5

Anna Elcik (Ilycsik, Ilcik) Sibling of #3

6

Pavol (Paul) Elcik (Ilycsik, Ilcik)Sibling of #3

7

Janos Elcik (Ilycsik, Ilcik)My Great-Great-Grandfather

8

Elizabeth

(Erzsebet, Alzbeta)

Baron (Baran)#7’s spouse

9

George (Gyorgy) Elcik (Ilscik, Ilcik) Sibling of #10

10

John (Janos, Jan) Elcik (Ilcik, Ilcik, Elsik) My Great-Grandfather

11

Anna Elcik (Ilscik, Ilcik) Sibling of #10

12

Joseph P. (Jozsef) Elcik (Elsik, Ilcsik, Ilcik) Sibling of #10

 

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Re: A Data Entry Question

Wed, Jan 27, 2021, at 3:54 PM
Beth,
I hope I’m not frustrating you by overthinking this naming question.
First, there are six basic options:
  1. My original proposal using all derivatives of the surname.
  2. Use the spelling most likely used at the time of birth.
  3. Using the oldest surname, i.e., Ilycsik
  4. Using the Slovak version, i.e., Ilcik
  5. Using the first surname recorded in America Esik and Ilick as appropriate
  6. Use today’s spelling, Elcik for the surname, and localized spelling of first names.
I suppose that the answer could vary by generation, but that gives me a headache.
I’m wondering if it is ok to consider our audience and use Elcik and the American spelling of first names for the tree. The rationale would be that the software itself calls the name: the “preferred” name.
The history of the surname could be dealt with three ways:
  • LifeStory article
  • Notation in the birth, baptismal, or death records as the surname evolves
  • Record a research note for each individual
I would do all three and provide you with a copy of the LifeStory article if that’s all you wanted to be done for your copy of the Elcik tree.
What do you think?
John, IV
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One Great Leap

Mon 3/15/2021 2:45 PM
Beth,
I’m putting the following on the Ancestry messenger account for John J. Elcik, where the DNA discovery was made. Please note that I realize I’m writing to a “dead” man.  I try to make that clear with the heading. 
John, IV
————————-

To: John J. Elcik (1943-2018)

From: John P. Elcik, IV (1952-)
Dear John,
Two years ago today, exactly 3/15/19, 7:20 AM, your son, and namesake John Elcik and I communicated. Part of the conversation went like this.
“Hi, John [your son writing], we definitely must be related besides having the same last name. I notice you are from Lisbon Falls, Maine! My grandfather Andrew Elcik was born in Lisbon Falls on a farm in 1911.  He eventually settled in New York City and raised his family in Queens, New York. My father just recently passed away, was also named John Elcik. My father’s brother Andrew Elcik is still alive and lives in Plainview.  Who were your father and grandfather? I know there is a very direct relationship here.”
We agreed, and I have attempted to link my great grandfather with your grandfather for two years.
  • John Elsik (1866-1941) married Mary Pelcarsky (1875-1936), through whom I (IV), Dad (III), and John (Jr.) descended. In the 1910 Census, John Elsik identified his surname as Elsik. Elcik is the spelling used for the rest of the family.  John immigrated in 1891 and Mary in 1896. Ancestry and I agree that John Elsik is my great-grandfather.
  • John Elcik (1886-1982) married Mary Jeho Zena Jonek (1887-1951). John immigrated in 1905, and Mary immigrated a year later in 1906. He came to America through Ellis Island, and the name was changed to Elcik from Ilcik, as told to his grandson. His son, Andrew J. Elcik (1911-1995), married Jeannie Pascarella through whom many of the “New York” Elcik’s descended. This family includes you and your son: my “New York” contact.

Early on, a link between your family and ours was found.  George Elcik (your family) married Anna Gamache, the sister of Norman Gamache.  Norman is my uncle, and his son Jack is my 1st cousin. This would not be a blood relative, but it has been the best the co-author of my eBook, MyCousins, could do. Her name is Beth Purinton Gamache, and she is married to Jack.

I think your son lost patience with the effort to link families as progress has been slow.  He dropped out of the search before I found the gravesite of my Great-grandfather. John, Sr.’s burial site was the first solid (rock hard) evidence that the families are related. Engraved on his gravestone are the letters, “ILCIK.” Then, there are baptismal records for our family that introduce new spellings of the family surname: Ilycsik and Ilcsik.
Today, I decided to do some research on the DNA finds in my Ancestry.com account. I search for the Elcik surname, and I get a hit for 1_jelcik.  The Family Tree associated with the hit has only two names, and one is private. The father of the DNA match is shown to be Andrew Elcik (1911).  On the family tree, this would make the DNA that of John J. Elcik (1943-2018), who is the father of John Elcik in Rocky Point, New York. This is your DNA. I do wish we could have met.
May we all celebrate?  I think this is a remarkable accomplishment for Elcik genealogy. The Ancestry relationship calculator is now telling me that you and I are related.  As for your son, he is my “great-grandnephew of husband of grandaunt.” I can almost understand this description.
I have no idea why I couldn’t find your DNA match sooner. I also don’t know if anyone will ever read this letter. Yes, I know you passed in 2018.  Should your son: “Rocky Point John” read this, I hope he will reach out. I am putting the final touches on the Elcik family tree and eBook, a family history, and an Elcik website.  It would be a pleasure to share.  The Elcik’s have traveled far.
Can we all agree to celebrate?
John P. Elcik, IV