Sun 9/27/2020 10:28 PM
John, IV,
I sent the letter to my friend and he can’t read it. I listened to the video again and there are some missing words in the letter. I sent him the video hoping he can open it. I haven’t heard back from him.
Beth
Category: Slovak
Re: Dad’s Slovak Nursery Rhyme
Sun 9/27/2020 10:46 PM
Beth,
Becky said when she sent it, the letter is in bad shape. Sad, but true.
John, IV
Sent from my iPad
Why Did Czech Immigrants Come to America?
Nancy and Beth,
I just finished asking you both to see if we can address the question, “Where did our ancestors come from in Europe.” There is another equally compelling question, “Why Did Czech Immigrants Come to America?”
Czech Immigration
The first major immigration of Czechs occurred in 1848 when the Czech “Forty Eighters” fled to the United States to escape the Austrian Habsburgs’ political persecution. Unlike previous immigration, new immigrants were predominantly Catholic.
My father was raised Catholic while his children were not. I recollect that he left the Catholic Church over getting someone (his mother?) buried in the Church Cemetery. There was some issue about the last rites. I was too young to understand at the time and never followed up.
Present-day Slavic people are classified into:
- East Slavs (chiefly Belarusians, Russians, Rusyns, and Ukrainians),
- West Slavs (chiefly Czechs, Kashubs, Poles, Silesians, Slovaks, and Sorbs)
- South Slavs (chiefly Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Slovenes).
Do you know in which group we belong to? I don’t.
Against the wishes of many of its 15 million citizens, Czechoslovakia today split into two countries: Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
To quote a Czech Genealogist, Kate Challis recently posted the following:
“The 19th-century pattern was for Czechs who emigrated to the United States from the old country to do so in patterns of chain migration. They came together, lived together, worked together, migrated together, married together, and stayed together even through terrible marriages. They had many children together, they died together, and they are buried together.”
The Slavic Language
Slovak is the language spoken in Slovakia, a country in Central Europe. It is a language from the Slavic language family. It is very similar to Czech, and Czechs and Slovaks understand each other quite well when they speak their own language. Polish and Sorbian are also quite similar. This latter fact, along with Jeff’s DNA test, suggests that Judy Spivak, a valued contributor to My Cousins, is our relative through her Polish father.
My father could speak a little Czech. He understood it, but he did not know how to write it. He was what is called a heritage speaker.
John, IV
Beth Gamache’s Introduces John Elcik to Bill Cizmar
Mon 10/12/2020 12:15 PM
Bill,
Beth Gamache has been trying to introduce us and has just shared your email with me. She is married to my 1st Cousin Jack and is a co-author of an eBook we are writing about our collaboration on ancestry research.
I apologize if I missed it; I can’t find any evidence of a Facebook invitation from you. Could you have reached out to one of the other Facebook John Elcik’s? If so, it is just one more piece of evidence that the same name can create identification issues. This is true in real life, as well as ancestry research. 🙂
- My Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jelcik
- John Elcik (my son J.P., V): https://www.facebook.com/john.p.elcik
- John Elcik (Rocky Point, New York): https://www.facebook.com/john.elcik
I am reachable through Facebook (above) or email at johnelcik@msn.com.
Bill, I understand from Beth that we both share interests in Ancestry. Better yet for me, Beth tells me you know a lot about Lisbon. Beth is so happy that you introduced her to the Historical Society 3 years ago.
Our brick wall has been to find a link between two Elcik families and/or “jump the pond” to Europe to locate the 6th generation of our Elcik family.
Also, I apologize that this email will be so long. It has allowed me to summarize where we are and clarify our goals.
Background Information
John Elsik (1866-1941) married Mary Pelcarsky (1875-1936) through whom I (IV), Dad (III), and John (Jr.) descended. In the 1910 Census, John Elsik identified his surname as Elsik. Elcik is the spelling used for the rest of the family. John immigrated in 1891 and Mary in 1896. Ancestry and I agree that John Elsik is my great-grandfather.
John Elcik (1886-1982) was married to Mary Jeho Zena Jonek (1887-1951). John immigrated in 1905, and Mary immigrated a year later in 1906. He came to America through Ellis Island, and the name was changed to Elcik from Ilcik, as told to his grandson. His son, Andrew J. Elcik (1911-1995), married Jeannie Pascarella through whom many of the “New York” Elcik’s descended. This family includes my “New York” contact: John Elcik.
A 1940 Census document for Joseph’s family (sons John J. and James G.) uses the “Elsik” spelling of the Ilcik’s surname. This s particularly significant to us. This is the first instance I have found of John Elcik (New York) direct relatives using this spelling, which can also be traced back to my Great Grandfather John Elsik, Sr.
Thanks to Beth’s research, we know one connection between the New York Elcik’s and us. Their George Elcik (in the 1920 Census) married Jack’s father’s sister Anna Gamache. The is not a blood relationship, yet both my John Elcik (Rocky Point, NY) contact and I think there should be one. We all come from Western Europe (Austria/Hungry/Slovakia), spoke Slovak, and have a Catholic heritage.
Our Goals
We all believe the two families are more directly related, if and when, we can “jump the pond” to Europe. I briefly subscribed to Ancestry World Discovery to locate European Ancestors. I also have been trying to find an immigration document.
I am looking hard for a European location to reach out to other descendants of our forefathers. But Europe is a big continent, and I have reached the proverbial brick wall. Individual responses in Census reports on our European origins are nonspecific. How our ancestors identified is as follows:
- Czech Republic (14)
- Austria (13)
- Austria-Hungary (4)
- Hungary (4)
- Slovakia (4)
- Austria-Slovakia (3)
The responses may be due as much to economics and politics as to specific geography.
My father always said we came here from Czechoslovakia, but our immigration in the late 1800s came before its creation.
As for geographic locations, I have found one reference to Parhovjani S, Czechoslovakia. Unfortunately, I don’t think it exists anymore. And the literal translations are “parking lot.” Lol.
Based on the spelling of Elcik as Elsik in the 1910 Federal Census, I believe the surname spelling to research is Elsik. Or perhaps, Ilcik, if the Durham Elcik’s are relatives.
Beth tells me that you might know ways of researching documents, etc. that we don’t.
Any tips you have would be very welcome. In addition to searching for immigration documents, I think a DNA test might help break the brick wall.
It is a pleasure to meet another ancestry enthusiast. I would like it very much if we can become friends as well.
Warmest regards,
John
Dr. John P. Elcik, IV
15117 Cloverdale Drive
Fort Myers, FL 33919
(561) 543-3626 (my wife Pam’s cell phone)
johnelcik@msn.com
William B. Cizmar Joins Our Group
Mon 10/12/2020 7:26 PM
Hi John.
Glad to make your acquaintance. Your email gave me a lot to think about. I’ve had a helluva time sorting out the Elcik records on Ancestry. Maybe you can help.
Beth is a great person, and I played football with Jack (and Bob, of course) at Lisbon High. Beth was a childhood friend of my wife, Sharon Tupper. I enjoy(ed) working with Beth at the historical society.
I spent many years researching my 1st wife’s family (Wiggin). Her mother and father both traced back to John Alden and Priscilla Mullens of the Mayflower. Fun! Then I took up my Mom’s family (Rioux). They go back to French Canada in the 1670s. Jean Riou married into the oldest families in Quebec, including the first settler family, Louis Hebert and Marie Rollet.
Thru a “gateway to royalty,” we are connected to French royalty (no kidding!)—many kings and Charlemagne, etc. Also, Rollo the Viking and William the Conqueror.
In The Falls, the Riouxs came from the Rimouski area to work in the mills along with my German side, the Baumanns. Four Baumann brothers and a sister (Hechtl) immigrated here. My Father was Slovak but came from Cleveland. The same name as the Chizmars. It is an occupational name meaning bootmaker. Like Cooper or Smith, families with the same name could live in adjoining towns and not be related. In Slovak, a C was written with a squiggle that gave it a ch sound. Immigrants to the US could take their choice of spelling or sound. My father was a marine guard at the Brunswick NAS when my Mom met him. He had been at Guadalcanal.
Currently, I am trying to collect data on all people with a record of involvement with Lisbon. A seemingly endless task.
A fellow gave a talk at the historical society and is a resource for Slovak info. His name Deeb Keamy and his email are deebmeanswolf@aol.com. You might contact him.
I will see if what you sent me helps me with the Elciks. Expect questions.
U.S. National Archives and Records Administration
Tue 10/13/2020 3:46 PM
Beth & Bill,
The attached John Paul Elcik document is from a different source (new to me), the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).
It is the lost reference to Parhovjani S, Czechoslovakia, as the birthplace for my great-grandfather. At least I think it is.
The birthdates are not the same, Ouch!
- Using the 1910 Census, we have John Elsik (Elcik), born 16 NOV 1866 in Austria.
- Using the NARA, we have John Paul Elcik, born 28 NOV 1867 in Czechoslovakia.
Keep in mind that the 1910 U.S. Federal Census information has been considered gold as we have the 1910 family photo that matches family members individual-for-individual.
The NARA document also identifies this great-grandfather’s parents as John P. Elcik and Elizabeth Baron. If true, am I the fifth John Paul Elcik and not the fourth? I have found references to Elizabeth Baron before and set them aside. This could be significant, so I am attaching two documents about her.
I’m sharing this even as I don’t know quite what to make of the information. Is this my great-grandfather, or do we have yet another John Elcik?
John, IV
John Paul Elcik, NARA – AAD – Display Full Records – Application (SS-5) Files, 1936 – 2007 (Last Names E through G).pdf
1910 United States Federal Census for John Elsik (1868) – Ancestry.com.pdf
Elizabeth Baron (03 FEB 1664), Ancestry Person.pdf
Elizabeth Baron, U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 – Ancestry.com.pdf
Elizabeth Baron
Wed 10/14/2020 10:50 AM
Beth and Bill,
Could someone be spoofing us with the Elizabeth Baron connection? Even if we are talking about a Great-granddaughter (note the dates), this is weird.
At the same time, I’m not yet willing to let go of Parhovjani S, Czechoslovakia as the place-of-birth for John Elsik, Sr. It is the only clue I have for a European location.
Also, the NARA should be a reputable source of information, wouldn’t you agree?
Am I crazy?
John, IV