Category: Ilcik

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Re: Hello Cousin

Fri 2/5/2021 1:50 PM
Ahoj bratranec,
When my e-mail was set up, it was set up under my husband’s first name Vladimir. BECA is his surname. He has his own e-mail. Neither of us goes into each other’s account.
I still have siblings and distant relatives in Vinne. Husband had a brother and a sister, but both passed away, so only nieces and nephews.
 
I’m not on FACEBOOK or any social media but e-mail.  
Congratulation on the e-book.  Exciting.
I went on the Slovakia Ancestry board and see that you have a query on there. I like that you also included the Slovak spelling of a surname.  Keep in mind that if the priest was not of Magyar ancestry, he most likely was not sure as to how to put a Slavic/Slovak surname into proper Magyar spelling. You might see ILYCSIK, which would be  IĽČÍK, and also you can see ILCSIK or ILCZIK.
In Magyar, LY would be the  Ľ sound in Slovak. In Vranov, we find both spellings:  IĽČÍK  and ILČÍK, but they are different pronunciation unless the spelling is wrong in the phone book.
 
My father was born in 1920, and his birth record does not show up in the Family Search. Some privacy law.  Possible that your Pal’s birth record was filmed, but if on that roll a record falls under privacy law, then the whole roll off the Family Search. Suppose Pal Ilysik (Pavol Ilcik) and Janos Ilscik (Jan Ilcik) were from the same location Parchovany than possibly some relationship. It cannot be ILSCIK but ILCSIK – Magyar grammar. It can be ILSZIK.
Zlatica 
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Goldie

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, at 6:18 PM
Goldie,
Thank you for catching this.

Is It Easy to Change the Spelling of Your Name?

You wanted to know if I had considered using the old-world spelling of our surname, Ilcsik; I now believe that it would be. Just weeks ago, I would have said Elsik or Ilcik.
It is not as easy as you might think. First, in the “old” days, it was easy to change your name. In fact, no paperwork was required. You always could (and still can) be known by anything you please, as long as there is no intention to deceive.  Today, not only is their paperwork, but many people have documents issued with our surnames needed for identification. To date, I am the only John P. Elcik with an earned doctorate.  I suspect that JP may change that and earn one as well. In the teaching profession, this would be a good career move for him.

J.P. Declares New Evidence Moot

Adding a sixth-generation to my family’s tree has resulted in an interesting conversation with my recently married son: JP.
Only recently have I learned details about my Great-Grandfather’s parents. It seems that my Great-Grandfather, who was known to have used Sr. in his name, i.e., John P. Elcik, Sr. may not have known the whole story of his name.  Records show that his father (married to Elizabeth Baron) was also John P. Elcik.  If true, he should have been named Jr.; I should be John P. Elcik, V; and my son should be John P. Elcik, VI. At least we did this by generation. I still can’t believe that George Forman named all five of his sons George Edward Foreman.
I shared with J.P. he would need to change his name to reflect the new reality; he wasn’t thrilled. In fact, he wouldn’t even play that game with me. He was NO fun.  And I was surprised, as he just got married and Ana, his wife, will be taking his surname as hers. Thus, he knows that changing a name can be done even if it comes with paperwork.
I can’t fight the good fight. J.P. says it is a moot point. So, it must be.

Why Did Our Ancestors Change Their Names?

Here is the article on names which is a fascinating topic for genealogists. And yes, the practice of reusing names when individuals die young is also prevalent in my family.
Illiteracy – The further back we take our research, the more likely we will encounter ancestors who couldn’t read and write. Many didn’t even know how their own names were spelled, only how to pronounce them. When they gave their names to clerks, census enumerators, clergymen, or other officials, that person wrote the name the way that it sounded to him.
Regards, from your cousin,
Janos Ilcsik, V (a.k.a. John Elcik, IV)
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Re: Goldie

Fri 2/5/2021 11:04 PM
John,

After reading the explanations of Slovak names’ spelling and especially upon their arrival at Ellis Island, it makes sense to me the different spellings of Elcik/cikIlcrik on gravestones.  Possibly both Ilciks, your great grandfather, and John NY’s great grandfather used that spelling when they lived in this country.  
 
I now think the “y” was dropped depending on who was writing it, especially at Ellis Island.  The birthdates are what’s important and linking them to the correct parent.  
I’m still baffled as to why we can’t link the NY Elciks and our Elciks, and I’m convinced somewhere, and somehow there’s an answer.  
Beth
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Final Answer?

Tue 2/9/2021 8:41 PM
Beth,
A response on the Ancestry Messenger Boards.
I feel better already…  
John
Re: Are Pal Ilysik (Pavol Ilcik/Ilycsik) and Janos Ilscik (Jan Ilcik/Ilcsik) related? Or, Why is there no “Y” in Ilcisk? by JPmiaou

In Hungarian orthography, ‘ly’ is a digraph (two letters treated as one) denoting a sound that has been lost from the standard dialect but still existed in some dialects up to the early 20th century — i.e., just long enough to screw up modern spelling rules. The sound is basically a palatalized L; people who don’t have this sound in their “arsenal” generally hear it as a consonantal /y/ as in “yellow,” but in some contexts, it can sound like a plain /L/ as in “long.” The č/cs (/ch/ like in “church”) sound in Ilčik/Ilycsik would naturally have caused palatalization of the preceding /L/; the Slovak spelling doesn’t mark this, but the Hungarian one does. ~~~~~ The other thing to consider or keep in mind is that surname spelling was variable right up into the twentieth century. In a society where illiteracy was normal, it was only the sound that mattered. There are countless examples of families who didn’t agree on a single spelling, with brothers or cousins using and passing down different versions. This is true even for people who stayed where they were born; for immigrants dropped into yet another language/spelling context, relatives spelling their names the same is the exception.

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Brick Wall Breakthrough

Sun 3/14/2021 12:53 PM
Fantastic Four,
I want to celebrate!
One of the larger goals of my ancestry research has been to see if we could establish a relationship between the two Elcik families, which I have been referring to as the “Elsik” and the “Ilcik” families.
Specifically, I have been attempting to link my great grandfather with the great-grandfather of a different John Elcik. I live in Florida, and the other John lives in Rocky Point, New York.
  • John Elsik (1866-1941) married Mary Pelcarsky (1875-1936), through whom I (IV), Dad (III), and John (Jr.) descended. In the 1910 Census, John Elsik identified his surname as Elsik. Elcik is the spelling used for the rest of the family.  John immigrated in 1891 and Mary in 1896. Ancestry and I agree that John Elsik is my great-grandfather.
  • John Elcik (1886-1982) married Mary Jeho Zena Jonek (1887-1951). John immigrated in 1905, and Mary immigrated a year later in 1906. He came to America through Ellis Island, and the name was changed to Elcik from Ilcik, as told to his grandson. His son, Andrew J. Elcik (1911-1995), married Jeannie Pascarella through whom many of the “New York” Elcik’s descended. This family includes my “New York” contact: John Elcik.
We know for sure that there is a connection between the New York Elcik’s and us. [Thank you, Beth.] Their George Elcik (in the 1920 Census) married Jack’s father’s sister Anna Gamache. This would not be a blood relative, but it has been the best Beth (and I) could come up with.
Today, I decided to do some research on the DNA finds in my Ancestry.com account. I search for the Elcik surname, and I get a hit for 1_jelcik.  The Family Tree associated with the hit has only two names, and one is private. The father of the DNA match is shown to be Andrew Elcik (1911).  On my family tree, this would make the DNA be that of John J. Elcik (1943-2018), who is the father of John Elcik in Rocky Point, New York.
May we all celebrate?  I think we have done it. The closeness of the relationship interests me, but the relationship alone is a win.  The attached document is Ancestry’s take of the probability of different relationships.
Bottom line, the Ancestry relationship calculator is now telling me that I am related to John in Rocky Point. He is my “great-grandnephew of husband of grandaunt.” I can almost understand this description.
This also lends credence to the Slovakian language experts that say the difference between Ilycsik and Ilcsik is probably a spelling difference.
Would everyone agree that I should encourage John Elcik to fill out his family tree if he has access to his father’s Ancestry account?  
Again, can we all agree to celebrate?  
John, IV
P.S. I have no idea why I couldn’t find this earlier.  Perhaps., John took my advice, and the Ancestry account is him and not his father. Lol.
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Why Is There No Y in Elcik?

Sun 1/31/2021 3:27 PM
Beth,
I woke up singing, “Why is there no Y in Ilcsik?” to the tune, “The monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga.”
No way this song makes the Billboard top 10.
I don’t drink very often, but I thought about a beer to cry into. It would be a first, Lol.
The Summary Status of my “record” collection:
  • # of “Elcik’s” in the MyCousins Tree = 82 people
For now, I will use four folders to keep my Elcik “records” organized.
  • Elcik [decendents of John Elsik] – 70 people
  • Elcik [decendents of John Ilcik] – 76 people
  • Elcik [Ilcsik antecedents of John Elsik] – Maybe, hundreds
  • Elcik [Ilycsik antecedents of John Ilcik] – 45 people
Why, oh why, is there no Y in Ilcsik?
Pam is considering a Family intervention.
Jan Elycsik
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One Great Leap

Mon 3/15/2021 2:45 PM
Beth,
I’m putting the following on the Ancestry messenger account for John J. Elcik, where the DNA discovery was made. Please note that I realize I’m writing to a “dead” man.  I try to make that clear with the heading. 
John, IV
————————-

To: John J. Elcik (1943-2018)

From: John P. Elcik, IV (1952-)
Dear John,
Two years ago today, exactly 3/15/19, 7:20 AM, your son, and namesake John Elcik and I communicated. Part of the conversation went like this.
“Hi, John [your son writing], we definitely must be related besides having the same last name. I notice you are from Lisbon Falls, Maine! My grandfather Andrew Elcik was born in Lisbon Falls on a farm in 1911.  He eventually settled in New York City and raised his family in Queens, New York. My father just recently passed away, was also named John Elcik. My father’s brother Andrew Elcik is still alive and lives in Plainview.  Who were your father and grandfather? I know there is a very direct relationship here.”
We agreed, and I have attempted to link my great grandfather with your grandfather for two years.
  • John Elsik (1866-1941) married Mary Pelcarsky (1875-1936), through whom I (IV), Dad (III), and John (Jr.) descended. In the 1910 Census, John Elsik identified his surname as Elsik. Elcik is the spelling used for the rest of the family.  John immigrated in 1891 and Mary in 1896. Ancestry and I agree that John Elsik is my great-grandfather.
  • John Elcik (1886-1982) married Mary Jeho Zena Jonek (1887-1951). John immigrated in 1905, and Mary immigrated a year later in 1906. He came to America through Ellis Island, and the name was changed to Elcik from Ilcik, as told to his grandson. His son, Andrew J. Elcik (1911-1995), married Jeannie Pascarella through whom many of the “New York” Elcik’s descended. This family includes you and your son: my “New York” contact.

Early on, a link between your family and ours was found.  George Elcik (your family) married Anna Gamache, the sister of Norman Gamache.  Norman is my uncle, and his son Jack is my 1st cousin. This would not be a blood relative, but it has been the best the co-author of my eBook, MyCousins, could do. Her name is Beth Purinton Gamache, and she is married to Jack.

I think your son lost patience with the effort to link families as progress has been slow.  He dropped out of the search before I found the gravesite of my Great-grandfather. John, Sr.’s burial site was the first solid (rock hard) evidence that the families are related. Engraved on his gravestone are the letters, “ILCIK.” Then, there are baptismal records for our family that introduce new spellings of the family surname: Ilycsik and Ilcsik.
Today, I decided to do some research on the DNA finds in my Ancestry.com account. I search for the Elcik surname, and I get a hit for 1_jelcik.  The Family Tree associated with the hit has only two names, and one is private. The father of the DNA match is shown to be Andrew Elcik (1911).  On the family tree, this would make the DNA that of John J. Elcik (1943-2018), who is the father of John Elcik in Rocky Point, New York. This is your DNA. I do wish we could have met.
May we all celebrate?  I think this is a remarkable accomplishment for Elcik genealogy. The Ancestry relationship calculator is now telling me that you and I are related.  As for your son, he is my “great-grandnephew of husband of grandaunt.” I can almost understand this description.
I have no idea why I couldn’t find your DNA match sooner. I also don’t know if anyone will ever read this letter. Yes, I know you passed in 2018.  Should your son: “Rocky Point John” read this, I hope he will reach out. I am putting the final touches on the Elcik family tree and eBook, a family history, and an Elcik website.  It would be a pleasure to share.  The Elcik’s have traveled far.
Can we all agree to celebrate?
John P. Elcik, IV